Does it have a smaller battery?
Saw an ad in the local paper, the bottom end model prices were very close, but the topend was like $30k vs. $27k ...
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
Does it have a smaller battery?
Saw an ad in the local paper, the bottom end model prices were very close, but the topend was like $30k vs. $27k ...
Because it's a hybrid powertrain stuck into an existing body, and the development costs are already paid for. Besides, Toyota marketing droids think that people will pay extra for the practicality of a hatchback and for the quot;coolquot; factor of a hybrid that LOOKS like a hybrid. They may be right -- I'd certainly pay extra to get a Prius vs a Camry.
-b.
It's the moron tax.
Originally Posted by keithert
It's the moron tax.
Why the hatred of Priuses? They get good mileage, can carry quite a bit of stuff, and are interesting from a design standpoint. Would you rather have all the folks that are driving Priuses driving SUV's instead?
The Camry has got to be roomier and comfier than the Prius... more sound insulation and much more power to boot.
Assuming an owner drives his car 90,000 miles before selling it (15k/year x 6 years), assuming the Prius gets 45 mpg, the Camry gets 33 mpg, and gas is $4/gallon, the gas savings is 727 gallons which is $2,900. The Camry is still cheaper.
???
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
The Camry has got to be roomier and comfier than the Prius... more sound insulation and much more power to boot.
Prius has more cargo space since it's a hatchback, plus it doesn't look like a bland-ass Camry taxi.
Originally Posted by bosozoku
Why the hatred of Priuses? They get good mileage, can carry quite a bit of stuff, and are interesting from a design standpoint. Would you rather have all the folks that are driving Priuses driving SUV's instead?
They look butt ugly. The segment of people who would buy them would never be found on this site and (no offense to anyone) are usually beatnicks who gave up their VW bug with a fake flower for the next 'green' piece of junk and they drive like my grandma on her deathbed.
That being said - how old are Prius'? Let's see what happens when they turn 5 years old and people have to replace their battery packs for an addition $5K chunk of change and then have the chemicals from the old batterys leak toxic crap into the ground.
Please don't get me wrong - I am all for hybrid or alternative fuel technology - but the current suite of hybrid vehicles are not it. They are a political stop gap measure until we can come out with something which truely runs on an alternative fuel - and you full well know that will not happen until we run out of crude oil because finding another form of fuel which could power a car 100% would cause another economic disaster similar to what we are in now.
Originally Posted by bosozoku
Why the hatred of Priuses? They get good mileage, can carry quite a bit of stuff, and are interesting from a design standpoint. Would you rather have all the folks that are driving Priuses driving SUV's instead?
because they can't accept new technologies. it is easy to bash something new and things they don't understand. German manufacturers used to bash hybrid. now they are jumping all over it.
Originally Posted by NEcarlover
Let's see what happens when they turn 5 years old and people have to replace their battery packs for an addition $5K chunk of change .
see what I meant. they don't even know that Prius batteries last a lot longer than that.
but answering op's question. Camry is never an expensive car to start with. you can't really use size to justify pricing. but most importantly, not sure where you get your pricing. as Camry's base price is $4k over Prius.
research/c...,USC00TOC161A0
I guess you must be referring to the selling price, not MSRP. reason is pretty simple: Camry hybrid is an old model. Prius III is brand new, barely shipping.
Sorry one other rant - re: Return on Investment.
Let's say my current car gets 26 mpg real world and I drive 20,000 miles a year. @ $3/gal = (20000/26)*3 = $2307.69/year for gas.
I get in my hybrid and get 40 mpg over the same miles above. (20000/40)*3= $1500/year for gas.
Difference = $807.69.
So I want to go and trade in my 5-8 year old car and get a Prius for $30K. Say I can get $10K for my car and I have to spend $20K in cash for the Prius. How long will it take me to get a return on my investment?
$20000 / $807.69/yr = 24.76 years.
It takes me 24.76 YEARS to see any return on my investment as far as savings goes. With a potential $5k battery swap every 5-7 years it is really a total break even.
So unless you are going GREEN for the environment - at this point in time it's just not worth it.
Originally Posted by NEcarlover
Sorry one other rant - re: Return on Investment.
Let's say my current car gets 26 mpg real world and I drive 20,000 miles a year. @ $3/gal = (20000/26)*3 = $2307.69/year for gas.
I get in my hybrid and get 40 mpg over the same miles above. (20000/40)*3= $1500/year for gas.
Difference = $807.69.
So I want to go and trade in my 5-8 year old car and get a Prius for $30K. Say I can get $10K for my car and I have to spend $20K in cash for the Prius. How long will it take me to get a return on my investment?
$20000 / $807.69/yr = 24.76 years.
It takes me 24.76 YEARS to see any return on my investment as far as savings goes. With a potential $5k battery swap every 5-7 years it is really a total break even.
So unless you are going GREEN for the environment - at this point in time it's just not worth it.
wrong on so MANY accounts:
1. you are comparing a 5-8 years old car to a new Prius ? always compare new vs. new.
2. gas won't always be $3. I don't know what the future is. may be $1, may be $10.
3. it is not $5k battery. it is about 1/2 that.
4. it is not every 5 years for new battery. NY Taxi are hitting 300k miles.
5. most Prius is not $30k. my friend got a Gen II few months ago for $20k. another friend bought a brand new one for $25k with Nav.
6. Prius III don't get 40MPG. even CR gets much better mileage than that.
Sorry for my digressions - I just don't see the benefit of hybrid quot;for nowquot;. It's great that others are jumping on the bandwagon because that will drive further development. I do that in other technology areas, but as far as cars go it's not for me.
To the point of the OP, for the articles I have read on the vehicle, I think demand for the Prius is keeping the price of admission high.
Originally Posted by NEcarlover
Let's say my current car gets 26 mpg real world and I drive 20,000 miles a year. @ $3/gal = (20000/26)*3 = $2307.69/year for gas.
I get in my hybrid and get 40 mpg over the same miles above. (20000/40)*3= $1500/year for gas.
Difference = $807.69.
So I want to go and trade in my 5-8 year old car and get a Prius for $30K. Say I can get $10K for my car and I have to spend $20K in cash for the Prius. How long will it take me to get a return on my investment?
$20000 / $807.69/yr = 24.76 years.
using correct math.
Gen II Prius gets about 43MPG. so it is (20000/43)*3= $1400/year for gas.
Gen II Prius cost ~$20k.
but don't forget your 5-8 years old car will be worth may be $2k in 5 years. whereas Prius is worth $10k in 5 years.
so $2,000 ($10k-$8k) / 907.69/yr = 2.3 years
yes math is a little fuzzy here (did not consider taxes, interest, etc..) but you get the point (I hope).
Originally Posted by bellwilliam
wrong on so MANY accounts:
1. you are comparing a 5-8 years old car to a new Prius ? always compare new vs. new.
2. gas won't always be $3. I don't know what the future is. may be $1, may be $10.
3. it is not $5k battery. it is about 1/2 that.
4. it is not every 5 years for new battery. NY Taxi are hitting 300k miles.
5. most Prius is not $30k. my friend got a Gen II few months ago for $20k. another friend bought a brand new one for $25k with Nav.
6. Prius III don't get 40MPG. even CR gets much better mileage than that.
1 - I am not comparing new to new - I am looking at return on investment if I decided to trade in my car for a hybird.
2 - if it's $1 then the difference is negligible. by the time it hits $10 there will be real alternative replacement technology out there
3 - sorry it's $3k, looked it up
4 - appears Toyota is leveraging the life span of a NiMH battery by never charging over 75% and never discharging under 60% because battery technology suck so bad that's the only way they can go.
5 - just going with the OPs figures - haven't looked into pricing
6 - Data from Consumer Reports indicates that hybrid cars get less than 60 percent of EPA estimates while navigating city streets. In Consumer Reports' real-world driving test, the Civic Hybrid averaged 26 mpg in the city, while the Toyota Prius averaged 35 mpg, much less than their respective EPA estimates of 47 and 60 mpg.
Read more: news0...xzz0LBCFHRRAamp;C
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Just looked up Consumerreports.org. Civic Hybrid is 37mpg. last gen Prius got 42-44mpg (depending on model). which is close to their EPA numbers (42 and 46mpg).
Well I own a camry hybrid, drive it normally, and I get 34-35 around town and 39-42 on the highway.
OK I see one major point, it's that the comparison is between a new 2009 Camry Hybrid and a new 2010 Prius.
I can't imagine a 2010 Prius to be comfier and more powerful than a 2009 Camry. The $'s still don't make sense even if the 2010 Prius gets 50 mpg over the outgoing model's 45.
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
OK I see one major point, it's that the comparison is between a new 2009 Camry Hybrid and a new 2010 Prius.
I can't imagine a 2010 Prius to be comfier and more powerful than a 2009 Camry.
Not everyone needs a rolling Americanized barkalounger. Why buy a $22k MX-5 when you can get a quot;comfierquot; and more powerful Ford sedan for the same price?
I was always told the Camry Hybrid was not as efficient as the Prius Hybrid, one being a ground-up purpose built hybrid and the other being a retrofit. I would imagine the Camry hybrid is cheaper to make, ergo cheaper to sell.
This is something I have never researched (as I've had little interest in the hybrids) but does the Prius hybrid offer any -other- ecological benefits that might explain the higher price? You know, like how Smart Cars are supposedly built with earth friendly paints and such... is the Prius built with quot;earth friendlyquot; things in less polluting ways? Or is it just slapped together in a factory with the same old paints and plastics as all the other cars are?
Originally Posted by JTN
I was always told the Camry Hybrid was not as efficient as the Prius Hybrid, one being a ground-up purpose built hybrid and the other being a retrofit. I would imagine the Camry hybrid is cheaper to make, ergo cheaper to sell.
This is something I have never researched (as I've had little interest in the hybrids) but does the Prius hybrid offer any -other- ecological benefits that might explain the higher price? You know, like how Smart Cars are supposedly built with earth friendly paints and such... is the Prius built with quot;earth friendlyquot; things in less polluting ways? Or is it just slapped together in a factory with the same old paints and plastics as all the other cars are?
It uses solar power to power the HVAC system. There are more but too lazy to look them up.
Originally Posted by CynCrvr
It uses solar power to power the HVAC system.
AFAIK, the panel powers a blower that vents the interior when idle, not the whole system. That being said, I hope that it can charge the battery as well when the blower isn't running. Every little bit helps...
Originally Posted by NEcarlover
They look butt ugly. The segment of people who would buy them would never be found on this site and (no offense to anyone) are usually beatnicks who gave up their VW bug with a fake flower for the next 'green' piece of junk and they drive like my grandma on her deathbed.
Well said, although I think you'd be surprised at how many beatniks really are on this site.
The total cradle-to-grave environental impact advantage of hybrids is highly debateable, and I think it's hard to argue that maintaining and continuing to use a small older car isn't preferable. Also, if someone really wanted to save the planet they would just choose not to drive. Therefore, I call anyone seen driving a hybrid an enviro-poser.
Originally Posted by fallzboater
The total cradle-to-grave environental impact advantage of hybrids is highly debateable, and I think it's hard to argue that maintaining and continuing to use a small older car isn't preferable.
What if your choice is new vs new due to what the spouse wants, company lease, or whatever?
Also, if someone really wanted to save the planet they would just choose not to drive. Therefore, I call anyone seen driving a hybrid an enviro-poser.
That's not always an option -- what if you're in sales and have to go to clients, or do on-site maintenance and repairs?
-b.
Originally Posted by bosozoku
Not everyone needs a rolling Americanized barkalounger. Why buy a $22k MX-5 when you can get a quot;comfierquot; and more powerful Ford sedan for the same price?
I'll argue that a Camry Hybrid is a sportier drive than the Prius. The Prius I drove had completely lifeless steering - the Camry at least will have much better acceleration.
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
I'll argue that a Camry Hybrid is a sportier drive than the Prius. The Prius I drove had completely lifeless steering - the Camry at least will have much better acceleration.
Prius is less quiet and isolating, though. Plus, it's not a Camry, nor a sedan. Couldn't care less about 0-60 so long as it's under 12s or so.
#8217;s features list). A lot of that is probably due to the simple fact that the Camry is an older model that hasn#8217;t received anything Toyota invented in the last couple of years. |
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