So I just did the loctite fix on my 1.6 NB.
Little over half a year ago my car started running very poorly. Idle was really rough. No CEL. I finally took the car to a shop when it almost wouldn't start, and I had checked everything that came to my mind. News came from the shop that the key had broken and I needed a new key, pulley boss, timing belt pulley and bolt. I ordered these and took them to the shop. They changed my timing belt also. I thought everything was fine now.
Car started to idle poorly a couple of weeks ago. I immediately thought of the same problem, no cel this time either. I ordered a new key, some loctite 660 and 243, new bolt and new timing belt pulley. I took off the crank pulley with some effort, the shop had used some loctite-type of stuff on the keyway, it came off really easily. I couldn't see any slack in the keyway, though I had to heat it up just a bit to get the timing belt pulley off so I could have missed it. After I had removed all the previous quot;loctitequot; there was some slack in the keyway, I could turn the timing belt pulley about 2mm without the crank moving. Could this have caused the poor idle? I think the car was also a bit sluggish at lt;4000rpm.
I filled the worn side of the keyway with 660, then slid the key in place and wiped excess off. I then put some 243 in the crank-timing belt pulley mating surface on the pulley and also in the pulley keyway, and inside the pulley. I then let it sit for approx. 1 hour. I then put some more 243 on the remaining part of the crank nose and also on the pulley boss. I slid the timing belt back into place, put on the pulley boss and torqued to spec.
Now I started to think that could the key have slid to the worn part of the crank nose while I was torquing the bolt?
And ps. use only a shop you can trust. I was just over the 6 month warranty period the law gives us when this started.
2mm of play at the crank pulley is plenty to cause timing troubles. I have never heard of the 1.6 from the European NB having this sort of problem, but then we don't hear much about them. Unfortunately, any crank pulley can fail if improperly assembled. Had your timing belt ever been changed prior to the failure?
The car has almost certainly had the timing belt changed, since there are now 140k miles on the clock. I was too thinking that the po had the belt changed some place they didn't use a new bolt or any threadlocker, and the bolt came loose and allowed the pulley to wobble and eat the keyway. The pulley did wobble a bit when the car broke the first time.
I could have been exaggerating when I was talking about 2mm, it was more like 1mm-1.5mm.
See the pic.
Looking at the key way, indicates at some point the bolt came loose and has worn a taper in the crank journal, along with the key way, a common problem on the early 1.6, over here. Mine was far worse, to the point, locktite wouldn't have held it. Faced with a choice of either replacing the crank or swabing another engine into it, I sold the car, and bought a new one. Good Luck, Bob
FYI, this time it wasn't the keyway problem. Car idles and runs exactly as good (and by this I mean poor) as it used to before I took it apart. Now I'm suspecting it's a coil pack.
Originally Posted by Phoenix_
FYI, this time it wasn't the keyway problem. Car idles and runs exactly as good (and by this I mean poor) as it used to before I took it apart.
Looking at the photo you posted earlier, I can't help but think that the keyway is EXACTLY the problem, and that trying to fix it with Loctite simply wasn't effective.
Look at the left edge of the keyway. It's got a wedge-shaped indentation hammered into it, most likely from a loose pulley. No amount of thread locker or epoxy or whatever is going to keep the pulley from rotating relative to the crank. The keyway is simply too damaged to keep the pulley properly in place, and that's going to give you random changes in ignition timing, which in turn will make the engine run poorly.
Hate to say it, but I'm pretty sure you're going to be needing a new crankshaft. Maybe it's a good excuse to upgrade to a 1.8 liter engine?
There's also the possibilty the cam belt has jumped a tooth, might explain the poor power, mine did. Bob
Belt is definitely installed correctly.
I now pulled the plug leads one by one (reason I haven't done this before is that I was afraid of frying the coil packs) and it seems that #3 cylinder is out of the game, at least when idling. There is spark coming, so it's probably not the coil packs.
Where should I look next? Fuel filter hasn't been changed probably ever, but wouldn't the problem be more pronounced in higher revs when fuel demand is greater? I tried changing the filter a few months ago, but one of those white plastic clips bent and wouldn't come off so I though what's the rush, especially when the car was running ok.
Could the injector be clogged/faulty?
Next thing I'm going to do is checking compression.
Some work on the keyway with a file, and then a custom fitted (hand filed over size) key would probably solve your keyway problems.
how long did you let the loctite set before starting it up?
Originally Posted by CrvLvrs
how long did you let the loctite set before starting it up?
I let the car sit overnight and the time I was at work, approx. 23 hours. Is there an easy way to check if the pulley actually is aligned correctly with the crank? If I drop a rod in the #1 plug hole and find TDC, what should I see at the pulley?
Originally Posted by Phoenix_
Could the injector be clogged/faulty?
Certainly a possibility.
Originally Posted by Phoenix_
Next thing I'm going to do is checking compression.
Good plan, since it's easier to do than to check the injector, and it is another one of the three things you need for good combustion.
Bought a gauge and did the compression check myself. Results:
Units are psi.
Dry: Wet:
#1 178 225
#2 205 265
#3 85 105
#4 203 260
Seems like a valve fault in cyl #3 and #1? I guess I have to remove the cylinder head next and take a look at the valves. The quot;wetquot;-readings seem a bit odd, since there's an increase of i.e. 60psi in cyl #2, but I let the car sit for little over an hour before doing the test so I guess I don't have to worry about the rings. Those readings seem a bit high in general since the book value (at least for 1.8) is 205psi, but the gauge was a $20 junk so that can contribute.
Even if you have a funky gauge, it still indicates too much dispairity between cyclinders. I wouldn't look to the valves, but more to the ring-cyclinder seal. Look deep into the cyclinder, with the piston all the way down. Bob
Why do you suggest that the problem be the rings? If that was the case, shouldn't the wet compression had been much bigger in i.e. #3?
Edit. If I understand the basics of compression checking, results I got would indicate that I have a valve(s) burnt/otherwise sticking open in cyl #3? |
Post at 2-7 07:46 AM
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