NA to old brit, downgrade?

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For some reason I have been suddenly attracted to British sportscars. My question is this, setting aside the obvious reliability differences, would going from a 91 NA to a MGB, Spitfire, etc. be considered a downgrade?
I have never driven a MG or Spitfire. I would assume that the miata would beat them all in terms of performance/handling.
Does anyone have any experience with the Spitfires?

I've read somewhere that you have to have certain masochistic tendancies to want to go back to a British car. Hmmmm, feeling a bit kinky are we??{tongue in cheek humor}

LOL. Nothing kinky I guess I just really like the looks of the spitfire. It wouldnt be a daily driver. I do my own wrenching and I know a miata is light years ahead in complexity. There seems to be as much aftermarket/support for the old british cars as there is for the miata.
I lust for a well sorted french blue spitfire. However, like I said, I never drove one

Supposedly the spits are an absolute blast to drive, the B though is more like a miata, except with british torque rather than japanese power.  Consider that NA miatas are almost exactly the same dimensions as a B.  Try driving them to see if its for you.  Also, moss sells tons of stuff for old TRs, MGs, and the like, I believe they even sell new body shells...  Although that should tell you something about british steel and rust.

Just to help change your mind. Go to any of the british sports car part suppliers, and start comparing price's of parts. Some are outragiously expensive. Some are with in reason. But the parts and the cars were built 50 years ago. Technolgy, and materials have improved by leaps and bound over that time span. Even the steel is of better quality today than it was years ago. The Miata was built in the tradition of the british sports car, keep it and enjoy it.

If you are after an even more quot;mechanicalquot; experience - think smells of raw gas when the carbs are choked or misadjusted (and being SUs, they will need adjustment!), leaky brakes, leaky clutch, hard braking (not usually power assisted) and manual steering (with less precision than a Miata, even with new suspension bits and a good alignment).  Headlights are dim (generators barely kept up with the electrical demand) and raising/lowering the top is a fiddly exercise indeed.  Starting with points is also different that electronic ignition (especially when damp, cold, or the car has sat for more than a few days).
If that is your quot;cuppaquot;, then by all means, go for it!  Take extra tools and fluids, stock up on quot;Lucas smokequot; (for the electrical system) and revel in the very mechanical experience.  
You may delight in being able to motor down the road in something that you quot;put rightquot; yourself.  Don't be suprised if you don't always get there on schedule, however!  
So - if you are all about the driving experience - then the Miata spanks (to keep the kinky theme) the Brit roadsters mercilessly.
If you are a dedicated garage-hound-gearhead-tinkerer-boffin, and you want something quirky and different - this would be perfect.  
The Brit cars have sounds, smells, feel (torquey but not powerful) and driving dynamics - (when you get a downshift right and keep the car balanced, you grin hugely, although you could botch the same corner in the Miata and be easily 10+ faster!)
On a more encouraging note - there are a fair number of them out there, a good network of parts and resources, they are not rare enough to ever become quot;super collector carsquot; - so you can drive 'em and enjoy 'em.  If you want one, are cognizant of the mechanical attention necessary, get the best (and most quot;stockquot;) one you can afford.


Originally Posted by mudd123
.......... would going from a 91 NA to a MGB, Spitfire, etc. be considered a downgrade?............

IMHO, absolutely.
In the opinion of a concours Brit car owner, probably not.
If you really need to scratch that itch, how about compromising with a Sunbeam Tiger?

Having owned several and harboring a sincere fondness for British sports cars, it would be a major downgrade in almost every respect except style.  An NA Miata will run rings around any of the cars you mentioned or that are in that class.  An NA will also be infinitely more dependable and reliable, and much less costly to maintain.  All that said, if you have the money and time, don't mind tinkering, actually like the smell of mildew mixed with gasoline and have friends that will pick you up when you break down... go for it.  Owning a British sports car builds character.

Not a lot experience working on the Spitfire itself, although I liked them enough that I did consider buying a new one way back when. That tilting front end does give great access. I like the lines of the GT-6 even more, and that has a bigger engine.
I don't remember what year they changed the rear suspension, the early ones had a swing axle setup.
The hardest part for me about getting back into Brit sportscars is that most of the one that are anywhere near affordable have been neglected or thrashed to some extent. For the amount of work it would take to get one anywhere close to reliable again, I'm not sure I'd go that direction. If you're looking at it to have a project to work on, then go for it.
My last one was a '74 TR-6 that I bought in '79 with 20K miles. Daily driver, cross country trips, camping, everything. But it was pretty fresh when I got it, and with no more than basic maintenance it had 120K on it when I sold it.

I like a lot of the old British sport cars....  I like the dependability and reliability of my Miata more!

I had a 1962 Triumph TR4, it was the reason I bought my first Miata. It broke down in front a dealership that had a Miata for sale. I was so poed I walked in and bought it with out driving it or even looking in it LOL.
So on topic, my Triumph was heavy, considering ladder frame, cast iron block, and transmission, with a rear axle that could rival a 1/2 ton pickup. The Miata is very nimble in the corners, and requires little driving talent for serious fun. The TR4 was work, pure and simple, you have to know what you are doing at all times. The TR had no room for error, or you could end up in serious trouble fast. Don't get me wrong I loved my Triumph TR4, and would buy another in heart beat. But it is definitely a down grade from a Miata.
Spitfires never interested me, not enough power in that little engine. They are fragile when driven hard, and have swing axles in the rear. YUP swing axles just like an old VW bug. Ever have an axle tuck under while hard in a corner? It is not fun.
Now dad had a 1964 E-type. That car was sex on wheels, fast, nimble, never felt heavy. And that in line six triple side draft just had that music about it under acceleration.  This would be a definite upgrade from a Miata

I love British sports cars - in other peoples' garages.
Keep the NA, it's a classic!

I would say it would be a serious downgrade.  I owned a Triumph GT6 about 25 years ago and it was very unreliable then.  Last year, I was shopping around to buy another one when I finally saw the light and bought my Miata.  In addition to the poor reliability, the Spitfires, for example, were very underpowered and most did not handle very well.  If you want to buy one to restore for fun, go for it.  But if you want a good daily driver with at least some decent performance, stay with your Miata.  The used and after market support for the old British cars is pretty good.  Look up Rimmer Brothers or Victoria British.  You can get a catalogue from them where you can buy about any replacement part to keep the car running and looking good.
BTW, I do think that they hold their value if you can buy/restore one to stock condition and upkeep it that way.  But once you change the suspension, upgrade the exhaust or carbs, they may improve in performance, but long term they tend to lose their value, IMO.

I've sworn off British cars several times.  Friend o' mine has owned his Healey 3000 for 42 years.  Last time he was cussing it I offered him a quick 22-year upgrade by trading straight across.  He still laughs when he sees me.
I've had this Maita for twenty years so I guess I'm keeping it; but I've been tempted.  Once was by that Healey.  Sure, it was slower and a bit truck-ish, but by gawd it sure felt good!  Almost got an Alfa Spyder once, but came to my senses.  Did buy an add-on Spridget.  The downside to it was that it performed like crap with two hundred pounds of tools amp; parts on board.  I might get tempted again tomorrow if I stumble upon a forlorn 914-6.
}}}}

I had an MG Midget and later went from an MGB to a Miata and considered it to be a huge upgrade however, I wouldn't consider going back to a British sportscar to be a downgrade at all. They're wonderful!
If you're looking for a car to drive hard I'd pass on a Spitfire and look at an MGB or an MG Midget. The Spitfire, at least early on, had a very poorly designed rear suspension and did not handle well at it's limits and beyond.
Midgets and MGBs are balanced cars, their power and handling limits are much lower than a Miata, though because they're well balanced they're a very good time! They have all the power that a car needs and their limits can be explored at lower speeds than in a Miata. Remember the adage that it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow. This should've been written about MGs!
Then there's the sound of a British sportscar...

I have the best of both worlds...a Miata and a TR3. I just finished a four year restoration on the TR3, and it was a great experience. Body off the frame adventure. I learned a ton of stuff along the way, and did everything myself, including all body work, gauge repair, interior, engine, chassis, and I even painted it myself in the garage!
Would I trade off the Miata for a TR3?? I don't think I would...two totally different driving experiences. You need both! I love the smells, sounds and quirkiness of the TR3, and if the resto is done properly, the car can be very reliable. BTW, making modifications doesn't neccessarily detract from what the car is worth. I made alot of modifications to my TR3, but ALL of them (except internal engine mods) are reversible with the parts I kept, so that shouldn't turn off a prospective buyer. I put in rack amp; pinion steering, a Toyota Supra 5 speed gearbox, modern electrics, Japanese gear reduction starter, Delco 10SI alternator, electric radiator fan, and the list goes on. But after a buyer bought this modified TR3, I doubt that he would change back...especially the rack and pinion steering. I'm still amazed on how the steering on this car was so transformed. Steering effort at slow speeds is LESS then my Miata w/o power steering.
Oh, and by the way, I'd rather push a TR then drive an MG!

My first wife's father had a Spitfire that she drove frequently during high school.  Well, she drove it when it wasn't broke.  
By the time we were married her dad had given up on it and it sat outside unloved and forgotten.  I did sit in it several times and I loved the way it looked, and my MIL tried to GIVE it to me on more than one occasion.  In the 13 years we were married I never saw the thing run, and personally I would consider this a major downgrade from a decent NA.

Do a search for other people's experience with quot;Lucas Electrics.quot;
My favorite quote from just doing my own search:  quot;MGB...Honeymoon...Tow Truck.quot;
This will get you started:  vb/showthread...ucas+electrics
Actually, I've had a Lucas pacemaker for years and never had any prob...

I've been around British sports cars for about as long as I can remember and have owned several myself.  If you plan on this being a daily driver I have two words of advice.  Forget it.
On the other hand, if you plan on this being a toy with occassional use, then it might be worth taking a look at.  Since you specifically mention an MGB and a Spitfire, having had several MGBs and a couple of Spitfires, here is my take between the cars.  
A good MGB will be more comfortable and a better performer around town.  Due to the unit construction and seperable front subframe, a rust free MGB is solid without alot of the flexing found in some other small Brtitish sports cars.  The BMC B series engine is pretty well bullet proof as long as it doesn't get too much abuse, the transmission is robust and agin, unless abused will be trouble free.  Plus the car just has good lines.  Favorite years are the 65 to 67 which are pre-emission standrad cars fitted with the five main bearings 18GB engines, downsides are positive earth (but can be easily converted) and no syncromesh on first gear and the the 72 to early 74 cars.  The later ones replaced what was known as the pillow dash with a better styled dash with a cubby box and featured a console.  These used the 18GV engines which were a low compression ratio engine so current pump gas is no problem and were the last of the chrome bumpered, low ride height cars.  A mid-range 74 would also be worthy of consideration, but they had grown some big square rubber overiders on the chrome bumpers.  After that we get into the rubber bumpered and raised ride height cars starting with the 74 1/2 models.  They were even more down on power and were pigs to drive compared to the earlier cars.
The Spitfire is indeed a somewhat more fragile car than the MGB.  However, they were still fun cars and if fitted with a Z-bar or a rear anti-roll bar the tendency for the rear axle to tuck under is mitigated.  Styling is basically good, but to keep production cost down, they were built with exposed body seams that were capped by mouldings.  All of this could act as moisture traps and made the body work more prone to rust.
Given the choice between the two for cars of similar condition, I'd go with the MGB over the Spitfire.


Originally Posted by martx-5
I have the best of both worlds...a Miata and a TR3. I just finished a four year restoration on the TR3, and it was a great experience. Body off the frame adventure. I learned a ton of stuff along the way, and did everything myself, including all body work, gauge repair, interior, engine, chassis, and I even painted it myself in the garage!

First of all - congrats. What a great looking car and what a nice job you did on it!
Second - I basically second the opinion - you need both (be it British or anything else vintage) - The Miata is tons of fun and is always available and is easy to live with - the vintage car gives you a different driving and ownership experience but is not that reliable or easy to live with on a daily basis.
I have, in the past, built my Lotus 7 clone (Birkin S3) with the idea that it would replace my Miata. A nice idea - but in reality I quickly realized that it had no chance of happening. For the record - I no longer have the Birkin - but the Miata is still with me. My current vintage car is Italian - but the same idea works.

It's not a down grade.  Considering that average NA series Miatas now sell for cheaper than decent spitfires.  You just have to realize the difference 30 or 40 years of technology makes in car design.  I had a '78 Spit when  I bought my Miata.  The Miata felt huge compared to the spit.  Of course it's faster, but with my twin carbed and properly tuned spit 1500 it wasn't all that much faster.  And  a spit with a good condition suspension handles excellently.  Hence why it won the SCCA slaloms for many years in a row.
They're super easy cars to work on and parts are pretty cheap.  Finding one with overdrive is always a bonus as brit cars are high revvers on the highway.
I still think spitfires are one of the prettiest cars made.
I have an MGB now along with my Miata because although Miatas come close they still don't sound and feel like old English sportscars. And feel is more important to me than all out performance.
But if you can only have one traditional sportscar, Miatas are pretty hard to beat.

My neighbor has a '77 MGB with low mileage (under 50K). It looks very pretty but requires constant money pouring. Since the owner can't do any of the work herself it's a money pit. Even if I put together all the things I did to my R so far and go pay for them, I'm pretty sure it won't amount to even 1/3 of all the money she spent on her car.


Originally Posted by martx-5
I have the best of both worlds...a Miata and a TR3. I just finished a four year restoration on the TR3, and it was a great experience. Body off the frame adventure. I learned a ton of stuff along the way, and did everything myself, including all body work, gauge repair, interior, engine, chassis, and I even painted it myself in the garage!
Would I trade off the Miata for a TR3?? I don't think I would...two totally different driving experiences. You need both! I love the smells, sounds and quirkiness of the TR3, and if the resto is done properly, the car can be very reliable. BTW, making modifications doesn't neccessarily detract from what the car is worth. I made alot of modifications to my TR3, but ALL of them (except internal engine mods) are reversible with the parts I kept, so that shouldn't turn off a prospective buyer. I put in rack amp; pinion steering, a Toyota Supra 5 speed gearbox, modern electrics, Japanese gear reduction starter, Delco 10SI alternator, electric radiator fan, and the list goes on. But after a buyer bought this modified TR3, I doubt that he would change back...especially the rack and pinion steering. I'm still amazed on how the steering on this car was so transformed. Steering effort at slow speeds is LESS then my Miata w/o power steering.
Oh, and by the way, I'd rather push a TR then drive an MG!

Your TR3 is painfully beautiful!

+1 on that!!  That TR is gorgeous; I must admit a certain bias...I had a 58.
To the O.P.; if ya want a Spitfire go for it. But, I'm pretty certain the Spit will be a garage ornament while you're drivin' your Miata. As far as TRADING a Miata for an old English car,yeah...if it was an E-type or Aston Martin. Otherwise...no way.

I was thinking TR3, Lotus Seven, Elan, Midget, Spit. Like the MGAs as well.  I was very fond of the pre 74 Fiat Spiders, and the post 80 models as well, though not English, they are way better to work on IMO.
Sadly I sold my beautiful 72 Fiat recently, it was a nice and well set up car.  Hard to compare to a supercharged Miata though, esp. with the M suspension.  It therefore tended to sit in the garage a lot, and I have had Fiats for 34 years.
I get Thoroughbred and Classic Cars magazine. A great compendium of classic cars.  Hemmings Sports and Classics is OK too, and a subscription is less than 10.00 right now. That will either scratch the itch or make you want to scratch more.