The final version of my plan is now to go with the Sport Bilsteins and standard GC's or maybe just a bit higher rates, maybe 10-15% more spring rate. Its for my DD and I don't mind a stiff riding car, but bounce will drive me nuts! I want a mild drop, maybe 1quot;.
At first I researched AGX and Illimuna with GC, but don't need adjustable shocks and I like the mon and larger tube of the Bilstein. The shorter body of the Sport is very appealing to, for keeping suspension travel.
So has anyone used this? I want to be sure the rates are OK, and I'm not sure what exactly which bumpstops to use either, even though I've read FCM's site alot.
I see Illuminas in your future. Most likely, from FM.
I had bilsteins and couldn't wait to get them off for something less bouncy so I wouldn't get sick in the car.
Originally Posted by black jesus
I had bilsteins and couldn't wait to get them off for something less bouncy so I wouldn't get sick in the car.
Be very specific - were these the Sport Bilsteins? Were they the NA HDs on stock springs or did they use GC spring rates? Were they too low? Did you have stock bump stops? Or was it on an NB? Did you have stock or over sized sway bars? How about stock wheels and tyres? (For instance, saying that the HDs suck while you're running heavy 17quot; wheels and 40 series tyres at 12quot;f/12.5quot;r ride heights seems disingenuous.)
Yes, even with my re-valved NA HDs washboard surfaces cause pogo-ing but the pogo-ing is evident in every other car and van on the road going over the same stretch of road, so it's the nature of the road. One way I've found to deal with it is to accelerate at the end of the bump or end of the corner.
Originally Posted by zooki
It's for my DD and I don't mind a stiff riding car, but bounce will drive me nuts! I want a mild drop, maybe 1quot;.
... don't need adjustable shocks and I like the mono and larger tube of the Bilstein. The shorter body of the Sport is very appealing to, for keeping suspension travel.
For a DD whether the shock is a mono tube or a twin tube shouldn't have much bearing on shock selection, imo, since they won't likely be subjected to the continuous stresses of AutoX.
Bouncy roads in Florida? You gotta be kidding me. All your interstates are smooth as glass. The only bump you're ever likely to see is your driveway since I can't remember ever seeing speed bumps in Florida. Washboard surfaces? Nope. Dirt roads? Nope. Maybe after a big storm you'll have to roll over small fallen trees. Maybe a little road kill, maybe in the Pan Handle or the Everglades. To have bounce you're going to need a lot of spring compression. That's as unlikely as finding twisty roads in Florida. I bet you stock shocks go over 100,000 miles in Florida.
By bounce I mean mismatched shocks/springs, I know the roads here are generally very good. The height adjustment is important for a DD IMO, even with FL roads. Ever seen our drainage solution around parking lot entrances? It'd be best IMO to get a shock with the better technology, like mono tube, given the cost vs other shocks/design (twin tube and smaller cylinders). Besides, who knows, I may try auto-x with this car.
I really was set on the Illuminas til I read more about the Bilstein, and the Sport aftermarket version seems great for a lowered car. The FM springs combo seemd like the ticket, but height adjustment is more ipmortant than adjustable shocks for me. I'll be happy with a single setting, as long as its a good match (spring/shock).
Anyone?
Originally Posted by wallijonn
For a DD whether the shock is a mono tube or a twin tube shouldn't have much bearing on shock selection, imo, since they won't likely be subjected to the continuous stresses of AutoX.
To have bounce you're going to need a lot of spring compression. That's as unlikely as finding twisty roads in Florida.
Well, you should have been with a few of us this past Saturday in North Florida. We hit this nice, 12 mile strech of a respectable, contorted pavement, both ways.
I'll take it.
For me, after discarding the Koni STR-T's following a weaker-than-stock dyno pull and the Tokico HP's because they're like apple sauce, it'll be either the KYB GR-2's or the Bilstein HD's. I'm keeping my factory springs and will be scoring a pair FM sway bars. Maybe some FCM bump stops.
Perhaps even with GR-2's, I could experience some increased handling characteristics. I would be planning to attend some track days in addition to back road bombing.
You may then want to consider regular NB HDs with GC sleeves and springs rates of 300-375f/220-250r since you're not lowering the car. Then just add FCM 46mm/36mm or FM 54mm bump stops. Now, what they'll ride like on the stock NB HD valving is another matter. You'd have to ask Shaikh for his opinion.
Originally Posted by Scigano
I'm keeping my factory springs and will be scoring a pair FM sway bars. Maybe some FCM bump stops.
You may want to wait on the sway bars. I wasn't crazy about my JR sway bars which are the same size as the FM sways. Too much over steer. ymmv, especially with the FM alignment, which is just about mandatory, imo.
What year Mia do you have? If it's an NA6 then you may want to do without the rear sway for better traction. But then you have to select the correct spring rates and sway bar size to make it work. IMO, it is probably best to stay with the NA shock mounts.
But if you're going with a complete overhaul then the FM NB Stage 1 kit would be a good choice.
We hit this nice, 12 mile stretch of a respectable, contorted pavement, both ways.
The beach area by St. Augustine?
As far as twisties go, I come from PA where 50 mile stretches was my minimum. I'd start driving and the next thing I knew I was at least 50 miles from home. On those perfect summer days I'd hit the twisties for about 125 miles one way. That's only a 3 to 4 hour drive. I'd have a coffee and a hamburger, then get back in the car and take the same road back home. But a lot of AZ is just like FL - smooth freeways; Phoenix to Tucson? 125 miles one way at 90mph - flat and straight.
I have installed GR-2's on a differ car, that came with oem KYB's. KYB told me their GR-2's, for that fitment, was 10% stiffer. I believe them after installing the shocks with Eibach springs, and 1quot; lower. Anyway, they seem like a great/decent quality oem replacement.
So, back to the thread...anyone?
I've got an NB, wallijonn - I know that changes just about everything, but I've been hitting lots of shock threads through the search engine to get input and see other's questions and answers (instead of starting whole new threads). I'm planning a shock swap in the not too distant future.
The sways would be set either to soft on the front and medium in the rear (per Keith's instructions) or hard in the front and medium in the rear (if I don't grow the chops and cajones to learn the new characteristics of the car).
The Bilstein's are good, unquestionably, but if the GR-2's aren't bad, and can save a penny here (or $50 or $100 there ... a student's got to eat! ) And spare money can go to bump stops.
Thanks for the input, zooki, no intent to steal your thunder, no disrespect.
I think the Illuminas the the best value for a street driven Miata. Paired with FM springs it's a firm but not abusive ride.
? (I also found the GR-2's for $261 for all 4 on Summit, but if I can get Bilsteins for less than $400, perhaps the extra cash will feel more worth it much later)
Additionally, do I need to purchase new NB boots for either the GR-2's or the Bilsteins? (I was under the impression that the Bilsteins came with new, integrated boots)
Do either of these shocks need drilling in order to properly mount too? I know that the Koni's require enlargement of the mounting hole by roughly an inch and that the Tokico Illuminas necessitate reshaping of the hole too (according to Keith Tanner's books).
? (I also found the GR-2's for $261 for all 4 on Summit, but if I can get Bilsteins for less than $400, perhaps the extra cash will feel more worth it much later)
Additionally, do I need to purchase new NB boots for either the GR-2's or the Bilsteins? (I was under the impression that the Bilsteins came with new, integrated boots)
Do either of these shocks need drilling in order to properly mount too? I know that the Koni's require enlargement of the mounting hole by roughly an inch and that the Tokico Illuminas necessitate reshaping of the hole too (according to Keith Tanner's books).
First,don't sweat drilling the top hats,no big deal.Boots are cheap,the Illuminas don't need them nor do the Konis. I'll let you drive my car,may be too stiff for you but Illuminas with 450 front and 350 rear. FM sway up front and stock sway in the rear. The way you drive I think you'll really like my setup.
Originally Posted by Thumper 13
First,don't sweat drilling the top hats,no big deal.Boots are cheap,the Illuminas don't need them nor do the Konis. I'll let you drive my car,may be too stiff for you but Illuminas with 450 front and 350 rear. FM sway up front and stock sway in the rear. The way you drive I think you'll really like my setup.
I don't have any tools to drill with unfortunately. The llluminas are a lifte rich for my blood at the moment. Those Bilsteins and KYBs are a bit more appealing. ($$$)
I would hope they wouldn't require additional fabrication since I'd be working as bolt-on as possible.
? Because there prices are pretty competitive, so if they can be trusted, I'd like to take advantage of them.
Well, I'm just glad to see you two hit'n it off so nice and all. Everyone needs a friend ......
.......and a new suspension every now and then
Originally Posted by Scigano
Additionally, do I need to purchase new NB boots for either the GR-2's or the Bilsteins? (I was under the impression that the Bilsteins came with new, integrated boots)
The usual advice is that if you are replacing the shocks that you should also replace the shock boots since they are usually a minimum of 7 years old. Rubber hardens. NB shock boots are cheap.
I know that the Koni's require enlargement of the mounting hole by roughly an inch...
I believe the stock hole is 10mm (Bilstein, stock) and the Koni Sport Yellows are 12mm. So you only have to enlarge it 2mm, which is hardly an inch (25.40mm). 2mm =0.07874quot;, or roughly 5/64quot;. You could do it with a reamer. Just alternate the sides as you ream until it slips over the shock rod smoothly.
I must've recalled incorrectly. Since the Bilsteins and stock shocks are 10mm, I'd assume the KYB's are also 10mm then too. Luckily, I do have a reamer though (hopefully, the right kind).
Originally Posted by Thumper 13
Boots are cheap,the Illuminas don't need them nor do the Konis. I'll let you drive my car, the way you drive I think you'll really like my setup.
And the Bilstein's or KYB GR-2's? That's a mighty generous offer, Thumper, I wouldn't want you to regret anything |
Post at 2-7 04:28 AM
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