Alternative Heal Toe technique

So with my stature there is no way i can do a proper heal toe. I cant get my ankle rotated in as i am slightly bow legged and i cant get my right leg under the steering wheel at all. Just wondering if there is an alternative heal toe technique. I have been trying to rotate my foot so that my leg is at 2 oclock so the left side of my heal is braking and the upper right part of my foot is blipping. anybody try this or know of any other techniques for heal toeing

Not sure what you are saying.  The most common technique is that the ball of your right foot depresses the brake while you roll the side of the same foot onto to the accelerator, so that the outside heel section of the foot blips the accelerator. If you are saying your ankle will not bend that way, then an alternative is that the heel of the right foot depresses the brake and the ball/toe blips the accelerator.
Steve

I don't use my heel at all.  When it is time to match revs, place the left half of the ball of your foot on the brake.  Then rotate the right half of the ball of your foot to the throttle to add revs.
It helps to use a wide shoe (athletic shoes for example), and it also helps to have the brake pedal at an equal height to the gas pedal when you are at maximum brake pressure.
Stock Miata brake pedals are spaced too far apart to use this technique safely.  Get a pedal extension that widens the gas pedal because it is far too easy to miss the accelerator or slip off the brake pedal.  I tried the Rennenmetal pedal but am changing to a Flyin Miata pedal for better pedal heights.

Originally Posted by Steve in Bailey
Not sure what you are saying.  The most common technique is that the ball of your right foot depresses the brake while you roll the side of the same foot onto to the accelerator, so that the outside heel section of the foot blips the accelerator. If you are saying your ankle will not bend that way, then an alternative is that the heel of the right foot depresses the brake and the ball/toe blips the accelerator.
Steve

These are all potential methods (including the toe-on-brake, heel-on-throttle in the original post). Experiment and do what feels right for you. The quot;rightquot; way is the way that gets the car downshifted while braking with minimal effect on chassis stability.
In my Miatas, and in most cars with throttles hinged at the quot;topquot; (firewall, basically), my toe-on-brake, heel-on-throttle works well with minimal rotation of my leg. However, I have rather small feet (I'm female and 5'5). In cars where the throttle is hinged on the floor (like the 911), I have to rotate my leg significantly further to get a good effect. My method definitely needs variation in different cars.

Anymore, heel and toe is almost a misnomer.
In the old days, you'd brake with your heel or toe and blip the throttle with your toe or heel depending on your preference. The 1960s movie quot;Grand Prixquot; with James Garner has some of the best genuine heel-toe footage you'll ever see, and it's right in the opening scenes.
With Miatas, it's almost invariably braking with the left ball of your right foot, and blipping with the right ball of your right foot by quot;opening your leg.quot;
As has been mentioned, Miata pedals are too far apart to quot;ball-ball,quot; at least with racing shoes on. You can search the Internet and find whatever pedal extensions you want. I bought Ultimate Pedals, which are larger versions of all three pedal plates. I eventually removed the clutch pedal plate because it was superfluous. With the brake and gas pedal plates, which essentially enlarge the surface area of the brake and gas, and let you brake and blip with the ball of your right foot, anyone can learn. I learned on the street so I wouldn't have to learn on the track where mistakes can be costly, or at the very least embarrassing.
Yes, you can do it, the same way you get to Carnegie Hall. Practice, practice, practice.

With my TA I can brake with my right foot and then roll on the throttle since the pedals are close enough. The Miata pedals are further apart and I can't do that. I recently tried to use my heel and I can't do that either because my knee hits the steering wheel. I think gas pedal extensions are the best bet.

Originally Posted by cmac2992
So with my stature there is no way i can do a proper heal toe. I cant get my ankle rotated in as i am slightly bow legged and i cant get my right leg under the steering wheel at all. Just wondering if there is an alternative heal toe technique. I have been trying to rotate my foot so that my leg is at 2 oclock so the left side of my heal is braking and the upper right part of my foot is blipping. anybody try this or know of any other techniques for heal toeing
Yes Cmac. This is perfectly acceptable and sometimes the only way to do it.
Trail-braking ,for instance,requires the use of brake and throttle at the same time and if you can't left-foot brake it then your method is the only way left.

Originally Posted by pete92
Trail-braking ,for instance,requires the use of brake and throttle at the same time and if you can't left-foot brake it then your method is the only way left.

Trailbraking does not require the use of brake and throttle at the same time. Trailbraking is simply the practice of continuing to brake past corner entry.

Might I suggest a Band-Aid to help your Heal Toe?  It's quot;Heelquot;.
Christine

Originally Posted by wannafbody
With my TA I can brake with my right foot and then roll on the throttle since the pedals are close enough. The Miata pedals are further apart and I can't do that. I recently tried to use my heel and I can't do that either because my knee hits the steering wheel. I think gas pedal extensions are the best bet.

You can just bend the gas pedal rod, to move the pedal to the left.  I had to move it over and down, myself.  The brake pedal lever is quite a bit stiffer, and might require removal from the car, for modification.

Originally Posted by pete92
Trail-braking ,for instance,requires the use of brake and throttle at the same time and if you can't left-foot brake it then your method is the only way left.

Your left foot isn't available, since you're using it for the clutch.  Heel-and-toe is used for a rev-matched downshift while braking, which is often, but not necessarily, done while trail-braking into a corner.  Trail-braking without shifting could be done with either foot.

A good alternative is to double clutch.
1 disengage the clutch and shift into neutral
2 increase the rpms
3 disengage the clutch and downshift.
I do not think it takes a lot more time to double clutch.  If one were racing in competition, this would not work.  However, I know a guy that races Formula Vees and he double clutches.
Why not do this for awhile and see what you think.  NO practice required.

Originally Posted by equiraptor
Trailbraking does not require the use of brake and throttle at the same time. Trailbraking is simply the practice of continuing to brake past corner entry.

Rubbish mate. What if you want to brake up to the apex and maybe even past it? You'll need throttle input whilst still braking.
Maybe you'd like to tell us all now what quot;Fade brakingquot; is?

Originally Posted by fallzboater
Your left foot isn't available, since you're using it for the clutch.  Heel-and-toe is used for a rev-matched downshift while braking, which is often, but not necessarily, done while trail-braking into a corner.  Trail-braking without shifting could be done with either foot.

Thanks for quoting me out of context.
I am talking of using the heel on the brake and the ball on the throttle .

Originally Posted by pete92
What if you want to brake up to the apex and maybe even past it? You'll need throttle input whilst still braking.

If you want to maintain your braking past your apex... Well, go ahead. But not all forms of quot;trail brakingquot; require acceleration, or any throttle input at all. That is, unless you're using a different terminology than I am. But my definition of trailbraking - braking past corner turn-in - is the definition pretty consistently used here in Texas.

Ok buddy. I'm sure the terminology is the same. It's just that my trail-braking goes on for a bit longer and has throttle input at the same time. Otherwise we are doing the same thing I'm sure.

cmac,
I know EXACTLY what you're talking about, because I had the same problem.  I tried bending the gas pedal and adding quot;racequot; (rice?) pedals, but that did not work.  You have to get your right knee in toward the steering column to do heel/toe right.
The best way to fix it is with a smaller steering wheel, perhaps with a hub adapter that moves it closer to you (and farther from your knees).  This is what I did, coupled with a race seat mounted to the floor.
RE: Left foot braking for trail braking - This is rarely an option, because it only applies when you're slowing down without a downshift.  Most heavy braking requires at least one down-shift, hence many folks talking heel/toe and a left foot busy with the clutch.
The only time left-foot braking for trail braking is an option is when you're only slowing slighty, staying in the same gear, which is very rare in my experience.

Two things. 1- a slight bend to adjust the pedals. 2- go to your local auto parts store and by some cheap pedal covers. They normally are larger than the factory pedals and help close the gap between the two pedals.
Trail braking can be used in many ways. Balance the car through the corner, transfer weight to rotate the car, and carry momentum by not lifting of the accelerator. Use it how you please, but use it correctly and it is a very valuable driver technique.
For instance I use trail braking entering hog pin at VIR which leads on to the front straight. The the loud pedal flat to the floor and balancing the car with the brake. The brake is used to transfer weight and rotate the car through the corner. In SM I was able to pick up a .5 second there and almost three MPH at the end of the front straight. This technique help me break into the 2:19.XXX there.

Buy a 370Z?

Originally Posted by mattsdad
Buy a 370Z?

Funny, but WRONG.
While that synchroshifty thing might make for good magazine reading, it's the DEVIL.
Long live manual controls!  Long live the H-pattern!  Long live manual steering!  Long live breaker-point ignition!  (wait...I went too far.)

Originally Posted by Shandelle
Two things. 1- a slight bend to adjust the pedals. 2- go to your local auto parts store and by some cheap pedal covers. They normally are larger than the factory pedals and help close the gap between the two pedals.
Trail braking can be used in many ways. Balance the car through the corner, transfer weight to rotate the car, and carry momentum by not lifting of the accelerator. Use it how you please, but use it correctly and it is a very valuable driver technique.
For instance I use trail braking entering hog pin at VIR which leads on to the front straight. The the loud pedal flat to the floor and balancing the car with the brake. The brake is used to transfer weight and rotate the car through the corner. In SM I was able to pick up a .5 second there and almost three MPH at the end of the front straight. This technique help me break into the 2:19.XXX there.

At last someone knows a bit about how to drive a car!!! Jesus!!!!!! Well done!
Sure beats all the other stuffy, defensive posts which I find totally anal and scarily funny. Hilarious in fact.
Fact is I use 3 different ways to heel amp; toe and can be flat on the throttle with two of those methods. I beginning to think that none of you have ever slammed a car toward an apex whilst 4-wheel drifting on the brakes and throttle. If I'm honest I know you haven't. And you never will.

Originally Posted by pete92
Sure beats all the other stuffy, defensive posts which I find totally anal and scarily funny. Hilarious in fact.
I beginning to think that none of you have ever slammed a car toward an apex whilst 4-wheel drifting on the brakes and throttle. If I'm honest I know you haven't. And you never will.

Bravo!  Call out other forum members for their stuffy, defensive posts by posting a stuffy, defensive post of your own!  Well done in the great traditions on Internet forums.
I, sir, shall take all my advice from people who brake all the way from turn in to well past apex.  Using your advice, I now brake before turn in, after turn in, before apex and after apex.  In fact, I left foot brake so effectively now that I am completely stopped 50 feet before track out.  My times have never been better.

Originally Posted by pete92
Fact is I use 3 different ways to heel amp; toe and can be flat on the throttle with two of those methods. I beginning to think that none of you have ever slammed a car toward an apex whilst 4-wheel drifting on the brakes and throttle.

That's funny stuff right there!

Originally Posted by C6DropTop
I, sir, shall take all my advice from people who brake all the way from turn in to well past apex.  Using your advice, I now brake before turn in, after turn in, before apex and after apex.  In fact, I left foot brake so effectively now that I am completely stopped 50 feet before track out.  My times have never been better.

Why that's NOTHING.  My grandmother left-foot-brakes during four-wheel drifts.
I brake COMPLETELY through the corner, switching to left-foot-braking, THROTTLE FLAT, so I can brake all the way down the following straight!
Sometimes, I put a cane in the car, so I can use my left hand to fully depress the CLUTCH as well!
TELL ME!  How many of you can honestly say you've pressed ALL THREE PEDALS TO THE FLOOR, all while bouncing off the rev limiter, flat-spotting ALL FOUR tires, in a drift, backward?(just having some fun.)

You don't need no fancy pedal extenders. All you need is a piece of thin wood screwed onto the throttle pedal. Nothing to it, the pedal even already has holes drilled in it. Can also use some kind of little metal bracket thing from the hardware store.